I received an email concerning a reported NDE by Mary Baxter which she describes in her book "A Divine Revelation of Hell" where she describes being given a tour of hell by Jesus. The person who emailed me this information was concerned about my statements that there is no "real" Biblical, historical, or NDE evidence for the existence of a being known as "Satan." He claimed that Mary Baxter's NDE had a reference to Satan and that I should check it out. I was being witnessed to through email to attempt to get me to accept Satan as my personal tormentor. So I researched Mary Baxter's NDE and had a very interesting email debate about this topic.

After doing some research, I discovered that Mary Baxter did not have a NDE. One of the main reasons I believe it to be either a fraud or a bad nightmare is that it resembles Dante's Inferno too much and portrays Jesus as being uncaring and more concerned with religious dogma than the people being tortured in hell "for eternity" by "demons" for minor legalistic infractions. But, I will present all the evidence and you can decide. At the end of the debate, I will provide a summary of Mary Baxter's book.

Some Background on Mary K. Baxter

Mary was born in Chattanooga, Tennessee. She was raised in the Church and accepted Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior at the age of 19. In 1983, she was ordained as a minister at the Full Gospel Church of God. She is now currently working as a minister with the National Church of God. In 1976, Mary claims that Jesus appeared to her and told her that God had chosen her for a special assignment. God wanted to reveal to her the reality of hell and the glories of heaven. Jesus said it is "for this purpose you were born, to write and tell what I have shown and told you." For a period of thirty nights, Jesus supposedly took Mary into hell, followed by ten visits to heaven. In all these visits, Jesus was always with Mary.

An Email Debate With a Christian Who Believes in Satan

QUESTION:  I believe that you have made the statement "If the Devil really existed, he would have appeared at least once in the thousands of near-death experience reports I have read. I have found none." Could you please answer the following questions?

(1)  Can you think of a number sequence that has no odd numbers?

(2)  Does this mean no odd numbers exist although not a single odd can be found in the series above? The series above is infinitely long, isn't it? So one could be looking above for a lifetime, couldn't they, and still not find an odd number?

ANSWER:  Your point is well taken. If Satan exists and he is the master of deception then he could easily hide between the 2 and 4 and 6 and 8 ... and go undetected. But that's the problem. Why is he hiding?

We already know from thousands of hellish NDEs which have been reported that hell is far worse than anyone could possibly imagine. We know there exists many hell realms for which a soul can spend merely a "second" of "time" as we know it there but which feels like it lasts "eons of eternities" long. We know people get gang-raped and cannibalized in hell and tormented into insanity. But where is Satan? Why would he hide?

The hell realms are open for all to see. If he exists, he receives no benefit from hiding. It is spending a "second" that feels like an "eternity of eons" in these hell realms which petrifies people with fear. If near-death experiencers actually do see Satan in these hell realms, would it make hell any more hellish than what it already is without actually seeing him there? We don't need to see Satan to know that hell is horrible. What difference does it make if Satan exists or doesn't exist in NDE reports? We have hell to fear. Satan's existence or non-existence doesn't matter. But why does he hide if he exists. If he does it so that NDE researchers can say "There is no Satan," it gets made meaningless when it is followed by the statement "But there are many hell realms for people to be gang-raped and cannibalized for what may seem like eons of time."

My point is that Satan's cover is blown if he exists. We don't need to see Hitler to fear concentration camps. And we don't need to see Satan to fear hell. The hell of hells is going to hell and discovering to your horror that you were your own "Satan" all along. Perhaps that is the ultimate terror which will last a second or a trillions years in hell - knowing that your own ego-self was "Satan" all along. Now that's a Satan I can believe in.

[After the person referred me to Mary Baxter's book as proof of Satan's existence, I emailed the following response]

ANSWER:  Thanks for your email. I did a search on the internet for some book reviews of Mary Baxter's book and found some reviews which you should probably read. One reviewer laments that in describing her entire experience in hell, she does not even describe Satan at all. This is equivalent to claiming to have gone to the Kingdom in heaven and seen Jesus but not even describing what he looks like.

I will be frank with you. I have read a lot of experiences by people who have been to the afterlife and my experience has been that people will embellish their stories or even flat out lie about them. The people who do this the most are fundamentalist Christians and the reason they do it is because they rationalize that, although it is bearing false witness, they believe the ends justifies the means. That is, bearing false witness is worth it if it means they can "save some souls". But what they don't realize is how serious bearing false witness is and how "saving souls" is ridiculous because a person's afterlife situation is based on the level of inward spirituality they have attained in life. It is not based upon such trivial things as whether they believe in a particular religious formula such as "Jesus died for my sins" or even whether or not they believe Jesus is Lord. Even the Bible states "You believe in one God, good, even demons believe that" and how Jesus said "Many will come saying Lord, Lord, didn't we do this or that in your name" and Jesus will say "I never knew you." So, getting to the highest heaven is not as easy as fundamentalists and most Christians believe.

[At this point, I read even more reviews of Mary Baxter's book - both good and bad. I then email a response.]

ANSWER:  After reading enough reviews about Mary Baxter's book, my guess is that she had some nightmares about hell. This is nothing to be sniffed at however because dreams are out-of-body experiences and excursions into the soul realms of the afterlife. The problem with dream visions of heaven and hell is that they all resemble the Book of Revelation in that it is heavy with dream symbolism which is the language of the soul and must be interpreted as such. In fact, the Book of Revelation has the same dream symbolism as the prophet Daniel's dreams which are recorded in the Book of Daniel.

So, my point is that Mary Baxter probably did have some nightmares of the hellish soul realms of the dream world. But the key to dream interpretation is that the symbolism applies only to the person who dreamt them. And this explains why so many fundamentalist Christians have near-death experiences that are hellish and describe a "God of wrath" and condemnation. If you have such a firm belief in such a reality then you are actually creating that reality for yourself in the afterlife.

It is not unusual to read a NDE testimonial from a fundamentalist Christian who went through the same tunnel as other NDErs and saw the same light of God as others, except they are terrified because they interpret it as being the fires of hell instead. Or instead of a God of love, they perceive a "God of wrath" instead. So, we must be careful about believing in evil because in the afterlife the only force that is counter to the light is darkness - and "darkness" is merely "ignorance" - not "evil" per se. In other words, Hitler was not an "evil" man (as if he had some disease). Instead, he was a normal man but obviously very "ignorant" to spiritual realities - a condition that everyone has from one degree to another. What makes Hitler so fearful is that he was an ordinary human being just like ourselves and not a "monster." But we demonize Hitler because we cannot imagine that any human being could do what he did. But the fact is that Hitler was human and this is one reason why he strikes terror in the hearts of everyone.

If you really want to know what hell is like from an ordained minister who has been there and was rescued from there by Jesus, reading the NDE testimony of Reverend Howard Storm. Rev. Storm was given the following insights from beings of light after his life review when he was fearful of returning to Earth life and afraid he would make mistakes again:

He is "the real deal" and his testimony is like none other. I consider his near-death experience to be one of my personal favorite because he explains so much about hell, Jesus, salvation, and what heaven and life on Earth is all about. Although I haven't read Mary Baxter's book, judging from the book reviews I have read, her experience would pale in comparison.

[The following are some interesting reviews about Mary Baxter's book]

Reviewer:  from Princewick, WV United States

"At the risk of offending many Christians who have read and believe MKB's revelation; I must say that this is one of the silliest books I have ever read. Prior to purchasing this book, I checked out a few of the reviews and I recall a reviewer who likened this text to a children's book. I couldn't agree more. The language is so simplistic that it reads more like a first grade primer than a divine revelation. In addition to its simplicity, it is also extremely repetitive. Phrases such as: the Lord Jesus knew my thoughts .... oh how (choose one) awful, terrible, horrible .... and I cried on the inside ....are repeated so many times that you wonder if you're simply reading the same page over and over. Also repetitive are the descriptions of the damned souls and the demons tormenting them. All of the souls are skeletons and the majority of the demons bat-faced. How cliche!

On page 174 MKB says "What you are about to read will frighten you." I think ... finally! Something interesting! MKB, however, goes on to describe exactly the same scenes which populate the previous 173 pages! Suffice it to say I was not frightened. As if all of this were not reason enough to pass on this book; MKB says she saw Satan while in Hell but offers not even a one word description of Him! This woman supposedly stood before the king of Hell, himself....and she passes over this event as if it were nothing! I think MKB had a bad dream that she tried to turn into a book....and she failed. I can not recommend this book."

Reviewer:  John from USA

This is not how God is. Mary Baxter claims that Jesus came to her when she was praying and took her on a guided tour of hell. The dialogue is all written in the same style and manner, and it seemed rather made-up or imagined to me. This woman has a sick and twisted view of God. She makes out God to be a wicked, immoral, monster, who has to make people suffer endlessly for not following his ways. In this book are many descriptions of people who are suffering unimaginably for relatively minor sins. One woman was burning because she didn't convert to Christianity when a missionary came to her village. It's very sad. Nearly all the poor people say that they're sorry for their sins and that they love Jesus but it makes no difference. I think that the whole thing was made up to scare people into being good Christians. Either that or it all happened in her head. Either way, I give this book 1 star.

Reviewer:  Joy from Phoenix, AZ United States

Mary K Baxter (an ordained Pentecostal pastor who is in complete disobedience to Gods word according to 1 Tim 2:12 dreams up heretical false visions, which are quite common in the Charismatic community. She's not alone in the NDE arena. Go to your local Christian book store, and then go to the "Charismatic Interest" isle, and you will see many books to the like of hers. Visions, new prophecies, Near Death, dream interpretation, etc, etc, etc! You'll find the same books in the New Age bookstores too! Baxter saw a false Christ in her vision, and the proof is in her book. On page 113, she states:

"I was so sad and so tired. I collapsed in the arms of Jesus. And even though He restored me whole, I wanted to go far, far away-from JESUS, from my family, from everyone."

What kind of Christians wants to go far, far away from Jesus? Well, the Jesus in her vision left her in Hell. Doesn't God's word tell us that He will never leave us nor forsake us? Apparently this "Jesus" was not trustworthy. According to the word of God, Baxter received a revelation alright ... from that old serpent, Satan himself. Beware Christians ... don't believe every wind of doctrine you hear!

Reviewer:  A reader from New York

The Gospel of Bad News. I read some of this book while browsing in the bookstore, and it truly disgusted me. What a stain on God's character! God is love. Yes, he is just and he punishes (sometimes severely), but he has a Father's heart of love. His punishments always correct! To those who believe in the truth of this book, you really can't hold to the position that God is love. The punishment presented here is vindictive, cruel, and fiendish. There is no purpose to eternal punishment. Love never fails (1 Cor. 13:8), but according to Ms. Baxter, God, who is love, has failed. He wants to save everyone (1 Tim. 2:4), but can't pull it off.

The word gospel means good news. The Bible, unlike the nonsense in this book, truly is good news for everyone. It says God is the savior of all mankind (1 Tim. 4:10), Jesus is savior of the entire world (John 4:42, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:14), Jesus died for all (2 Cor. 5:15), Jesus will draw all men to Himself (John 12:32), every knee will bow in worship before Jesus (Phil. 3:21), God binds all into stubbornness that he might have mercy on all (Rom. 11:32), there will be a restitution of all things (Acts 3:21) and a reconciliation of all things (Col. 1:20, Eph. 1:10).

The Biblical words for hell and eternity are not as clear cut as you might think. There is no mention of hell at all in the Old Testament. Yes, there is a Hebrew word "Sheol", but this word means a hidden or unknown place, especially the realm of the dead. Jonah said he was in Sheol when inside the great fish, Job longed to go to Sheol during his earthly suffering, Jacob and David (declared saints in the Bible) went to Sheol, 1 Sam. 2:6 says the Lord brings down to Sheol and raises up again. When the OT was translated to Greek, Sheol was translated to the Greek word Hades, which means "the unseen". There is mythology connected to this word, but scripture uses it only in the same sense as Sheol - the realm of the dead. Jesus holds the key to death and Hades (Rev. 1:18) means that he has power over death, not that he acts as a jailer. Death and Hades are temporary and will be destroyed (1 Cor. 15:55, Rev. 20:14).

The Greek word "Gehenna" that is translated hell in most Bibles actually refers to a place on Earth. It means the "valley of Hinnom", which was the garbage dump of Jerusalem in Jesus' day where fires continually burned. Executed criminals were often "thrown into Gehenna", where worms consumed them. It represents a fiery judgment, and may or may not represent punishment in the hereafter.

Certainly, punishment after death is clearly taught in the Bible. Sinners are punished according to what they have done, but God's judgments make things right again. They are not eternal. Wherever eternal punishment is mentioned in scripture (e.g. Matt. 25:46, Dan. 12:2, 2 Thes. 1:9), the word for eternal (olam in Hebrew, aion in Greek) actually means "age-lasting". A good concordance will verify that fact (Try the Englishman's Hebrew/Greek Concordances).

God has a plan to save everyone. Jesus came to save everyone. Those who aren't drawn to Him in this life will be drawn to Him in some resurrected age, because the promises are sure (John 12:32, 1 Cor. 15:22). I believe in God's goodness above all other things, so I can follow the commandment to not worry about anything. It's not up to me to save sinners, though I still try to do my part. It's much more effective, by the way, to preach a savior who loves sinners enough to die for them all, then to say you better believe now before he sends you to a torturous eternity.

I was once taken in by such hell-fire preaching. I even heard a radio preacher once say that God would throw babies into hell. God won't hold such people guiltless, because they malign His character (a violation of the 3rd commandment), but He will have mercy on them. I hope this helps set some hearts at ease. Search deep into the scriptures yourself to see if these things are so, and ask God for the answers, for he who asks shall receive.

Reviewer:  Know_thyself_first from Detroit

Is this for 3rd graders? This book is the best fictional book I have read for children ... When I told that to the co-worker who gave me the book he stated, "It wasn't a children's book and it wasn't fictional." That was a shock because if that's the case this is the most idiotic hour read that I have had in a long time. Here are 3 reasons

(1)  Here it is that Christians promote this BELIEF that their god is all loving however it is obvious that Baxter has more love for these suffering masses then the very god who claims to love all mankind.

(2)  This book is a blatant contradiction of the Bible due to the fact that Baxter repeatedly states that after death you feel all pain and suffering when it is a fact that the Bible states that there is no pain, nor knowledge after death.

(3)  She must have run out of torture methods because all of them began to repeat themselves.

This book is nothing more then an elementary horror novel meant to be read by elementary minded individuals. Question: Why are you printing the words so large and using such large spaces for 212 pages? Obviously you could have written this in a pamphlet of no more then 100 pages. If you want to serve the Lord at least save his trees. Peace and Blessings

Reviewer:  Keith from UK

This book portrays a traditional view of the devil presiding over hell tormenting souls. Not only is it repugnant that a righteous God would allow such a thing, Hell is most especially reserved for the devil as his judgment. I am amazed that this book even found its way to a publisher, let alone that it got printed. It is nonsense from start to finish.

Reviewer:  David from Illinois

What good this book was for me. This is I think the second review I have made on this book. I believe the book has some value; however, it is in error somewhat, at least Biblically. I have read this book several times, plus attended a few services in which Mrs. Baxter preached. What the book did for me was that it shook me at a point in my life, when I was living in sin and away from God. I immediately confessed sin, and started walking with Jesus, that was about six years ago. I must say, however, that I lived in mortal fear from then on, because, even though I wanted to live better, I still had sin in my life and couldn't overcome it. I felt like I would go to hell if I died because I couldn't shake the sins in my life. I thought to myself, "who can qualify to go to heaven?" because it seemed from this book on hell that only a select few "super-Christians" could make it.

One day, after really seeking God on the subject, the Holy Spirit spoke one word to me. That word was "righteousness". When I got home and looked it up in the Bible, I realized that we are saved only by believing on the blood of Christ, that faith in God through Jesus Christ is our salvation, not works, as this book on hell suggests. Finally, I was able to see clearly that all I needed was to cling to Christ and not worry about trying to avoid sin so much. It made my life better, because it took my mind off of sin and I started living better knowing in my heart that I am the righteousness of God in Christ (2 Cor. 5:21). Unfortunately, this book leads the reader to believe that you can only get to heaven through good behavior, not faith in Christ. Certainly, abstaining from sin is important, because sin will mess up your life, period. Sin, however, has no power over the saint (Christian) in Christ and therefore we are free and justified, not of our own works, but through the cross of Christ.

I recommend this book to any Christian that is backslidden, but be warned that you need to know who you are in Christ, and build your foundation up of that in your life immediately, or you will eke out a miserable Christian walk that is unfruitful and agonizing. Jesus didn't die a horrible death on the cross and then "need" us to "help" him out with good behavior. When He said "It is finished", He meant the fulfillment of the law, which we could not do.

I certainly do not disbelieve in hell. I haven't gone there or experienced death yet. I do think it would have been nice, however, if Mrs. Baxter would have been a lot more explicit about the ones she saw in hell and why they were there. It is assumed by the reader that the people in hell were there because they sinned. All have sinned, and will continue to sin, sorry, if this is all it takes to go to hell, I guess we will all be there, including Mrs. Baxter!!!!

[I received another email pointing out to me the fact that Mary Baxter does talk about Satan in Chapter 9 of her book]

QUESTION:  Did he read Chapter 9? This speaks very poorly of the reviewer, since his statement is incorrect. I read the book, since reviews like this only enforce my perception that some reviewing is done from a biased prejudicial viewpoint.

ANSWER:  The reviewer's point was that he expected to read a physical description of Satan but there was none in the book. Perhaps you know where it is in her book and can email it to me. One of the things I have always wanted to know was if I ever came across someone who claims to have seen Satan to find out what he looks like. Does he have a pitchfork, horns and hooves? Does he wear a red cape or does he look more like a bat or a dragon. The reviewer has a very credible point and if Mary does not give the reader a description of Satan (or Jesus for that matter) then it doesn't pass the "smell test" to me. So, if you would email to me what he looks like, perhaps I might believe in him.

QUESTION:  I am sorry that you feel so critical of "fundamentalist" Christians.

ANSWER:  This is not a personal matter. I am critical of fundamentalist beliefs - nothing personal. If anything, I am sympathetic to fundamentalists because I was once one myself for many years and know exactly what taking fundamentalism to its extreme means. I can tell you that I have the same feeling as Paul when he said that he wished he could be cut off for the sake of those who opposed him. I must point out here that not all fundamentalists are "washed in the blood of the lamb" fanatics. You can read about my own personal conversion to Christianity and then away from fundamentalism at the link provided.

QUESTION:  [In response to my speculation that Mary just had nightmares.]  But you haven't read the book. I have. And she definitely had an out of the body experience, while being totally lucid and in control of her senses.

ANSWER:  I just found a good summary of Mary's book. After reading this summary, I came to a number of conclusions:

(1)  The critical aspect about these kind of experiences is the initial phase of it. This summary suggests that Jesus appeared to Mary while she was praying. If this is true then this is the first time I have ever heard of anyone having a NDE or an OBE while praying. So unless it WAS a miracle and Jesus just appeared while she was saying her routine prayers, then I would have to know more detail about what happened at this initial phase. And since this experience occurred over a number of days, I will have to know what she initially experienced. NDEs and OBEs can happen while a person is meditating but usually only if it is deep trance meditation. So I will need to know the details of the initial experience she has.

(2)  Her descriptions of the hell realms and outer darkness resembles that of someone who has never read any testimonies of the thousands of people who have died and been to hell and back. Mary's description of hell resembles "Dante's Inferno" and nothing like I have read from NDEs. You can check it out yourself here:

The earthbound hell realms and outer darkness.

(3)  Her descriptions of the spirit world do not ring true to me either. Here are some of her descriptions:

Mary Baxter's NDE:  "Mary saw long funnels protruding out of the Earth. These funnels were all over the Earth and could only been seen with the spiritual eye. Mary asked what these funnels were and Jesus replied that those were gateways to hell and that they are to go into hell through one of them."

ANSWER:  This description of funnels leading inside the Earth to hell suggests that hell is within the Earth. This is highly bizarre and contradicts everything that researchers know about hell. She also gives an even more bizarre description:

Mary Baxter's NDE:  "Jesus later told Mary that hell has a body, just like a human form, lying on her back at the center of the Earth. It is shaped like the body of a human, with many chambers of torment."

ANSWER:  This description just does not pass the smell test. This is not the nature of hell.

What also really bothers me about Mary's story is how she depicts Jesus. Mary's descriptions of Jesus' words and actions not only fail my smell test, they fail the gospel test. When Jesus was accused of performing miracles by the spirit of the devil, he rebuked his accusers by telling them that a tree is judged by its fruit. A "good" tree cannot produce bad fruit. Nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. The fruit Jesus was talking about the fruit of the Holy Spirit which the Bible describes as: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Jesus was teaching his accusers how Satan cannot produce love, joy, peace, etc. The assumption was if Jesus was producing these fruits of the Spirit, then he couldn't be working for Satan. So this is test to evaluate NDE testimony about Jesus. Any testimony describing Jesus behaving according to love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control is a true testimony. Otherwise, it is false. Mary's portrayal of Jesus is one where Mary is seen having more compassion for the lost in hell than Jesus. Jesus appears to have these people burning in agony for eternity because of legalistic sins some of which are ridiculously minor. Here are some of the reasons Mary's Jesus tortures people in hell:

Example #1 reason people go to Mary Baxter's hell:  "Jesus replied that this woman had surgery done because she had cancer. Christians came and wanted to pray and heal her, but she refused their help - instead, she blamed God for her condition and cursed the Savior. Jesus said "My spirit pleaded with her. Even after she had turned her back on Me, I still tried to draw her by My spirit, but she would not listen. At last she died and came here."

ANSWER:  The Jesus of the NDEs I know about makes Mary's "Jesus" to be more like Satan. And this whole incident just appears too contrived. Read how even more ridiculous the next one is:

Example #2 reason people go to Mary Baxter's hell:  "In the next pit was the skeletal form of a woman on her knees, apparently looking for something. Fire clung around her hands and flesh fell off her. She said "O Lord, O Lord, I want out." She managed to get herself to the top of her pit and just when she was going to get out, a large demon pushed her back into the burning pit. Mary was horrified at what she saw and pleaded for this woman. Jesus said:

"My child, judgment has been set. God has spoken. Even when she was a child, I called and called her to repent and to serve Me. When she was sixteen years old, I came to her and said, "I love you. Give your life to Me, and come follow Me, for I have called you for a special purpose.' I called all her life, but she would not listen. She said, "Someday I will serve You. I have no time for You now. No time, no time, I have my life of fun. No time, no time to serve You, Jesus. Tomorrow I will.' Tomorrow never came, for she waited too long."

ANSWER:  Jesus said in the gospels that a tree is known by its fruit. My aunt's dog has more compassion for people than Mary Baxter's Jesus. This Jesus is judgmental, condemning, uncaring, and legalistic. This Jesus is a "bad tree". Tell me any instance in the gospels where Jesus acts like this? This Jesus acts more like one of the legalistic Pharisees. Read this next pathetic reason Mary Baxter's Jesus tortures people:

The woman cried to Jesus and said:  "My soul is truly in torment. There is no way out. I know that I wanted the world instead of You, Lord. I wanted riches, fame and fortune, and I got it. I could buy anything I wanted: I was my own boss. I was the prettiest, best dressed woman of my time. And I had riches, fame and fortune, but I found I could not take them with me in death. O Lord, hell is horrible. I have no rest day or night. I am always in pain and torment " My sweet Lord, if only I had listened to you ! I will regret that forever. I planned to serve You someday " when I got ready. I thought You would always be there for me. But how wrong I was ! I was one of the most sought after women of my time for my beauty. I knew God was calling me to repent. All my life He drew me with His cords of love, and I thought I could use God like I used everyone else. He would always be there. Oh yes, I used God ! He would try so hard to get me to serve Him, while all the time I thought I didn't need Him. Oh, how wrong I was ! "

ANSWER:  First of all, the dialogue of this woman just sounds l too phony to me. Secondly, "Jesus" sends these people to burn forever because of specific legal sins. It is as if a person's eternal damnation is based upon just a few specific legalities, rather than on a spiritual basis. Where are her descriptions of people who are like Adolf Hitler or Ted Bundy or Stalin? Mary appears to only describe people in hell who are the equivalent of church-goers who farted in church and now must burn forever in hell for it. Read this next one:

"They stopped at a pit where there was a large framed man. He too was in skeletal form, but had ripped clothes and burning flesh hanging onto him. This man could be heard preaching the Gospel, holding a make believe bible. The Lord informed Mary that the man was a preacher of the Gospel and at one time, he spoke the truth and served God. Jesus said to the man "Peace, be still" and immediately, the man looked at Jesus. The man said "Lord, now I will preach the truth to all the people. Now, Lord, I'm ready to go and tell others about this place. I know that while I was on Earth, I didn't believe there was a hell, nor did I believe You were coming again. It was what people wanted to hear, and I compromised the truth to the people in my church"I made my own rules about heaven and right and wrong. I know that I led many astray, and I caused many to stumble over Your Holy Word" Lord, let me out, and I will do right."

Mary Baxter's Jesus answered the man and said:  "You not only distorted and misrepresented the Holy Word of God, but you lied about not knowing the truth. The pleasures of life were more important to you than truth. I visited you Myself and tried to turn you around, but you would not listen "You knew the way of the cross. You knew the way of righteousness. You knew to speak the truth " You should have repented."

ANSWER:  See what I mean? This "Jesus" lacks the fruit of the Spirit of love, joy, peace, kindness. Where is the compassion? This "Jesus" condemns the preacher to eternal torture because of NOT PREACHING THE BIBLE CORRECTLY!!!! I submit to you that this "Jesus" fails Jesus' test of knowing a good tree by its good fruit. This "Jesus" is not the Jesus I know from the Bible or NDEs.

Listen to the reason "Jesus" is bar-b-queing this woman:

"Jesus later told Mary that the woman had gone to church just to seduce men, resulting in many broken marriages. Despite this, Jesus sent many of His servants to convince her to repent, but she would not. Satan then entered into her and she become bitter and unforgiving. Part of her wanted to serve Jesus, but you can't serve God and Satan at the same time. Everyone has to make a choice."

ANSWER:  This IS kindergarten stuff! To think that Jesus would torture a woman for eternity merely for trying to find romance in church or breaking a few legalistic transgressions is to question whether Mary Baxter really understands the very basic fundamentals of salvation. According to orthodox Christianity, Christians are not punished for sin because they are not perfect but forgiven already. The next case is even more ridiculous:

"The people in hell still had all their senses and could feel the fire, the worms and the frustration and hopelessness of their situation. They stopped at a pit which contained a woman.

"Jesus" said to the woman:  "While you were on Earth, I called you to come to Me. I pleaded with you to get your heart right with Me before it was too late. I visited you many times in the midnight hour to tell you of My love. I wooed you, loved you and drew you to Me by My Spirit. "Yes Lord,' you said, "I will follow You,' With your lips you said you loved Me, but your heart did not mean it. I knew where your heart was " you wanted the world and not Me."

The woman said to Jesus:   "You remember Lord, how I went to church and was a good woman. I joined the church. I was a member of Your church. I knew Your call was on my life. I knew I had to obey that call at all costs, and I did."

Mary Baxter's "Jesus" said:  "Woman, you are still full of lies and sin. I called you, but you would not hear Me ! True, you were a member of a church, but being a church member did not get you to heaven " You would not forgive others when they hurt you. You pretended to love and serve Me when you were with Christians, but when you were away from Christians, you lied, cheated and stole " you also had a double tongue. You talked about your brothers and sisters in Christ. You judged them and thought you were holier than they, when there was gross sin in your heart " You played with God, and God knows all things. If you had sincerely served God, you would not be here today."

ANSWER:  Baxter's "Jesus" judges this woman as if she was Adolf Hitler. This "Jesus" is having this woman tortured for eternity basically because she has personality problems. According to this description, Jesus is torturing this woman because she did not forgive others, she pretended to be a Christian, she lied, cheated and stole, talked about her brothers and sisters, she judge them, etc ... in other word, "Jesus" is burning her for eternity for being too human.

QUESTION:  God, in the person of His Son, came to Earth to free us from going to hell, a very real place, which He talked about himself (flames, lake of fire, worms that don't die, incredible pain, thirst, and burning) He warned us about this very real place, but made a way of escape to deliver us from the evil one, as his very own prayer says.

ANSWER:  Whenever Jesus talked about hell it was in the form of a parable. Parables are symbolic. They are much like the dream symbolism of the Book of Revelation. Hell is not so much a matter about flames or pits of fire or any outward description. Heaven and hell are emotional, mental and spiritual conditions which everyone is already familiar with. When we are in love and happy, we say we are "in heaven." When we are so depressed that we want to die, we say we feel "like hell." My point is that the horrible thing about hell is not seeing pits of fire or flying demons or even Satan. The horrible thing about hell is the emotional, mental and spiritual Armageddon that people have within them in life which they realize within themselves after death. Having a devil prod you with a pitchfork is a childish way to describe hell and Mary Baxter's descriptions resemble just that.

QUESTION:  I trust that you would agree that hearing God's Son share about hell should be something that we pay very careful strict attention to, because he's not a mere man like you and I, but as deity, deserves the respect that he could claim, whenever he is talking about truth claims. We owe him that, don't we?

ANSWER:  Yes, that is why you need to judge Mary's "Jesus" by his fruit. Is there love, joy, peace, kindness, etc the fruit of the Spirit? Nope. False Jesus.

QUESTION:  Kevin, sorry to say, but the lie of evil, the very core and essence that it says is this - "there is no evil" That is the evil in evil. You need to understand that the fountain head, the source of evil was actually started by a person, named Lucifer, who became Satan. Originally created by God to be one of the highest angels, if not the highest angel, his heart went into pride and he fell.

ANSWER:  You need to read my web page about the history of Satan which originated with the ancient Persian religion called Zoroastrianism. Then you will know that relying on just a New Testament understanding is very foolish.

According to Genesis, a literal interpretation of the story of the Garden of Eden tells the bizarre tale of Satan and how sin, evil, death, and Armageddon entered into the world:

Are we to understand that this ridiculous event literally unleashed the horrible satanic legion of apocalyptic abomination of desecration and damnation from the dark abyss and into the hearts of all humanity bringing death, holocaust, and Armageddon? This has to be symbolic like either a parable or dream symbolism. In fact, you can read a better interpretation of the Genesis account right here.  The notion that God punishes children for the sins of their fathers is incredibly unjust and Christians need to face up to this. Suppose your friend committed a murder. It would be an incredible travesty of justice if your friend's son was executed because of his father's sin - especially if your friend gets off scott-free.

It is clear that the Bible states that evil and sin are the "plague" of humanity. Christians believe there is a universal force that is opposed to God and is the source of evil. But, the NDE shows that "evil" is basically "stupidity" or "ignorance" of spiritual realities. What Christians know to be as "sin" is seen by God as "mistakes." It must be admitted by Christians that "evil" and "sin" are permitted to exist only because of the sovereignty of God. Otherwise, God would have destroyed "evil" the moment it was created. People having NDEs learn that God permits us to make mistakes for the purpose of instruction and enlightenment. For example, Hitler was very "evil" man in that he was a very ignorant man. There was no universal force than made Hitler "evil," Hitler made himself into a very, very ignorant person.

This person called "Satan" supposedly is leading a universal force of rebellion against God. Christians believe this being tempts people to sin and is responsible for the fall of humanity from grace. But many NDErs have been shown that such a person does not exist. What people think of as "Satan", is really their own personal trait of self-centeredness, self-gratification, self-glorification, self-consciousness, self-righteousness, self-interest, self-ego which we must "crucify" to practice unconditional love. People whom others would consider to be "good people" have hellish NDEs when usually become heavenly "It's a Wonderful Life" experiences. People whom others would consider "not so good people" have hellish NDEs which also become heavenly in its effect. So hell is not a place of punishment but rather of education and "time-out." That is the true nature of the hell realms judging from the NDE evidence I have examined.

A Short Summary of Mary Baxter's Book "A Divine Revelation of Hell"

Chapter 1  (Into Hell)

On March 1976, when Mary was praying in her house, Jesus Christ appeared to her at night and said:

"I am Jesus Christ, your Lord, and I wish to give you a revelation to prepare the saints for My return and to turn many to righteousness. The powers of darkness are real and My judgments are true. My child, I will take you into hell by My Spirit, and I will show you many things which I want the world to know. I will appear to you many times; I will take your spirit out of your body and will actually take you into hell. I want you to write a book and tell of the visions and of all the things I reveal to you. You and I will walk through hell together. Make a record of these things which were and are and are to come. My words are true, faithful and trustworthy. I Am That I Am, and there is none beside Me."

At this, Mary began to praise God and was willing to be used by Him. Jesus then took Mary's soul out of her body and into the sky. At that point, Mary's soul could see her family and house below her; in fact, she had all her senses. Also, Jesus knew Mary's thoughts and comforted her when she was afraid.

Jesus and Mary went higher and higher into the sky, until they could see the Earth below. Mary then saw long funnels protruding out of the Earth. These funnels were all over the Earth and could only been seen with the spiritual eye. Mary asked what these funnels were and Jesus replied that those were gateways to hell and that they are to go into hell through one of them.

They soon entered into one of the funnels. Inside the funnel looked like a spinning tunnel, and yet there was deep darkness as well as a horrible smell. Evil spirits, dark gray in color, lined the tunnel. These spirits were embedded in the walls, yet were able to move and cry out. When Mary asked about these forms, Jesus said that they are evil spirits ready to be spat onto the Earth, once Satan gives the orders.

Near the end of the tunnel, sharp screams can be heard. Jesus prepared Mary to what was to come by saying "We will soon enter the left leg of hell. Ahead you will see great sorrow, pathetic sadness and indescribable horror. Stay close to Me, and I will give you strength and protection as we go through hell. The things you are about to see are a warning. The book you write will save many souls from hell."

Jesus later told Mary that hell has a body, just like a human form, lying on her back at the center of the Earth. It is shaped like the body of a human, with many chambers of torment.

Chapter 2  (Left Leg of Hell)

The sounds of people in torments were everywhere and there was a thick horrible odor. Many pits can be seen in the left leg of hell as well as evil spirits and demons. The pits were filled with fire and they were everywhere, as far as one can see. On closer inspection, the pits were shaped like a bowl, three feet deep and four feet across. There were red hot coals of fire on the side of each pit and in the center of the pit was a soul that has gone into hell. Fire would start at the bottom of the pit and rise up, engulfing the lost soul, leaving the soul caged in a burnt skeleton. These souls could feel the flames, as wails of regret and excruciating pain came from them. The fire would then die down, and then would rise up again, sweeping the tormented soul. This happed day and night.

A soul cried out to the Lord, "Jesus, have mercy!". It was a voice of a woman in skeleton form, with a dirty gray mist inside, which was her soul. Flesh hung by her bones and she was hairless and eyeless. The woman cried out again and said "Lord, Lord, I want out of here!" Jesus' face showed great sorrow and He said to Mary that she is here to let the world know that sin results in death and that hell is real. Mary looked at the woman again and saw worms crawling out of the bones; the worms were not harmed by the fire. Jesus said that the woman knows and feels those worms.

Jesus and Mary walked to the next pit. From this pit, a man's voice cried out "Lord, have mercy on me... I'm so sorry, Jesus. Forgive me. Take me out of here. I have been in this place of torment for years. I beg You, let me out!" Great sobs shook this man. Jesus heard this man and He too was crying. "Lord Jesus," the man cried, "haven't I suffered enough for my sins? It has been forty years since my death." Jesus said:

"It is written, "The just shall live by faith!' All mockers and unbelievers shall have their part in the lake of fire. You would not believe the truth. Many times My people were sent to you to show you the way, but you would not listen to them. You laughed at them and refused the gospel. Even though I died on a cross for you, you mocked Me and would not repent of your sins. My father gave you many opportunities to be saved. If only you had listened!" Jesus wept.

The man replied that he would repent now! Jesus said "It is too late, judgment is set." The man then tried to persuade Jesus to let him go back on Earth to tell his friends about hell, but Jesus said to him "They have preachers, teachers, elders " all ministering the gospel. They will tell them. They also have the advantages of the modern communications systems and many other ways to learn about Me."

Jesus told Mary that hell is real and judgment is real. Also, this is only the beginning of many terrifying things He has to show her. Jesus said "Tell the world for Me that hell is real, that men and women must repent of their sins."

In the next pit was a small framed woman about 80 years old. The woman had only one leg and there were drill holes in her hip. Mary asked about her and Jesus replied that this woman had surgery done because she had cancer. Christians came and wanted to pray and heal her, but she refused their help -instead, she blamed God for her condition and cursed the Savior. Jesus said "My spirit pleaded with her. Even after she had turned her back on Me, I still tried to draw her by My spirit, but she would not listen. At last she died and came here."

The woman cried out to Jesus, saying "Lord Jesus, please forgive me now" I will be good. Haven't I suffered enough? Why did I wait until too late? Oh, why did I wait until Your Spirit quit striving with me?" Jesus said to her that she had many chances to repent and to serve Him. The old woman cried as Jesus and Mary walked away sadly.

In the next pit was the skeletal form of a woman on her knees, apparently looking for something. Fire clung around her hands and flesh fell off her. She said "O Lord, O Lord, I want out." She managed to get herself to the top of her pit and just when she was going to get out, a large demon pushed her back into the burning pit. Mary was horrified at what she saw and pleaded for this woman. Jesus said:

"My child, judgment has been set. God has spoken. Even when she was a child, I called and called her to repent and to serve Me. When she was sixteen years old, I came to her and said, "I love you. Give your life to Me, and come follow Me, for I have called you for a special purpose.' I called all her life, but she would not listen. She said, "Someday I will serve You. I have no time for You now. No time, no time, I have my life of fun. No time, no time to serve You, Jesus. Tomorrow I will.' Tomorrow never came, for she waited too long."

The woman cried to Jesus and said:

"My soul is truly in torment. There is no way out. I know that I wanted the world instead of You, Lord. I wanted riches, fame and fortune, and I got it. I could buy anything I wanted: I was my own boss. I was the prettiest, best dressed woman of my time. And I had riches, fame and fortune, but I found I could not take them with me in death. O Lord, hell is horrible. I have no rest day or night. I am always in pain and torment " My sweet Lord, if only I had listened to you! I will regret that forever. I planned to serve You someday " when I got ready. I thought You would always be there for me. But how wrong I was! I was one of the most sought after women of my time for my beauty. I knew God was calling me to repent. All my life He drew me with His cords of love, and I thought I could use God like I used everyone else. He would always be there. Oh yes, I used God! He would try so hard to get me to serve Him, while all the time I thought I didn't need Him. Oh, how wrong I was!"

Chapter 3  (Right Leg of Hell)

Jesus and Mary arrived at the left leg of hell, and again, screams can be heard everywhere and burning pits lighted the darkness. They stopped at a pit where there was a large framed man. He too was in skeletal form, but had ripped clothes and burning flesh hanging onto him. This man could be heard preaching the Gospel, holding a make believe bible. The Lord informed Mary that the man was a preacher of the Gospel and at one time, he spoke the truth and served God.

Jesus said to the man:

"Peace, be still" and immediately, the man looked at Jesus. The man said, "Lord, now I will preach the truth to all the people. Now, Lord, I'm ready to go and tell others about this place. I know that while I was on Earth, I didn't believe there was a hell, nor did I believe You were coming again. It was what people wanted to hear, and I compromised the truth to the people in my church " I made my own rules about heaven and right and wrong. I know that I led many astray, and I caused many to stumble over Your Holy Word " Lord, let me out, and I will do right."

Jesus answered the man and said:

"You not only distorted and misrepresented the Holy World of God, but you lied about not knowing the truth. The pleasures of life were more important to you than truth. I visited you Myself and tried to turn you around, but you would not listen "You knew the way of the cross. You knew the way of righteousness. You knew to speak the truth " You should have repented with sincerity, not halfway. My Word is true. It does not lie. And now it is too late, too late."

As Jesus and Mary walked past another pit, a woman in a pit threw out her hands to Jesus and said "Let me out of here. I will give You my heart now, Jesus. I will tell others about Your forgiveness. I will witness for You. I beg You, please let me out!" Jesus said, "My Word is true, and it declares that all must repent and turn from their sins and ask Me to come into their lives if they are to escape this place."

The woman then asked if there is anyway out of Hell. Jesus said with compassion, "Woman, you were given many opportunities to repent, but you hardened your heart and would not. And you knew My Word said that all whoremongers will have their part in the lake of fire."

Jesus later told Mary that the woman had gone to church just to seduce men, resulting in many broken marriages. Despite this, Jesus sent many of His servants to convince her to repent, but she would not. Satan then entered into her and she become bitter and unforgiving. Part of her wanted to serve Jesus, but you can't serve God and Satan at the same time. Everyone has to make a choice.

Chapter 4  (More pits)

Jesus and Mary walked past many burning pits and many bony hands tried to reach out to them. The people in hell still had all their senses and could feel the fire, the worms and the frustration and hopelessness of their situation. They stopped at a pit which contained a woman.

Jesus said to the woman:

"While you were on Earth, I called you to come to Me. I pleaded with you to get your heart right with Me before it was too late. I visited you many times in the midnight hour to tell you of My love. I wooed you, loved you and drew you to Me by My Spirit. "Yes Lord,' you said, "I will follow You,' With your lips you said you loved Me, but your heart did not mean it. I knew where your heart was " you wanted the world and not Me."

The woman said to Jesus "You remember Lord, how I went to church and was a good woman. I joined the church. I was a member of Your church. I knew Your call was on my life. I knew I had to obey that call at all costs, and I did."

Jesus said: "Woman, you are still full of lies and sin. I called you, but you would not hear Me! True, you were a member of a church, but being a church member did not get you to heaven " You would not forgive others when they hurt you. You pretended to love and serve Me when you were with Christians, but when you were away from Christians, you lied, cheated and stole " you also had a double tongue. You talked about your brothers and sisters in Christ. You judged them and thought you were holier than they, when there was gross sin in your heart " You played with God, and God knows all things. If you had sincerely served God, you would not be here today."

Jesus and Mary then went to the next pit and there, they saw a skeletal form of a woman. The woman saw Jesus and said, "Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by Him. Jesus is the Light of the World. Come to Jesus, and He will save you."

Mary wondered why a woman will preach the Gospel here and Jesus said that he had called this woman to preach the Gospel (the good news of Jesus) at the age of thirty. This woman answered her calling by doing many good works and grew in the knowledge of God. One day, she found out her husband was having an affair with another woman. Her husband had asked for forgiveness, but she was bitter and wouldn't forgive him. As Jesus described it, "Murder grew in her heart where love had once been. And one day, in her anger, she killed her husband and the other woman. Satan then took her over completely, and she killed herself."

The woman said to Jesus "I will forgive now Lord. Let me out. I will obey You now. See, Lord, I am preaching Your Word now. In an hour demons will come to take me to be tormented even worse. For hours they will torture me. Because I was preaching your Word, my torments are worse. Please, Lord, I beg You to let me out."

Chapter 6 (Activity in Hell)

Jesus told Mary that they were going into the belly of Hell. He said to tell her readers that Satan and the demon powers are for real and to go against such powers, Christians need to humble themselves, turn from their evil ways and pray to Jesus. Then He will hear from heaven and heal us of our land and body.

As they walked on, they could hear the chilling cries of a man. Jesus said:

"What you are about to see and hear is true. Take heed you ministers of the gospel, for these are faithful and true sayings. Awake, evangelists, preachers, and teachers of My Word, all of you who are called to preach the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you are sinning, repent or you will likewise perish."

As they walked closer to the noise, they could see twelve small dark figures marching around a coffin. These dark figures were demons holding spears and they were talking and laughing. There was a small opening in the coffin and that's where the demons inserted their spears.

Jesus explained: "Child, there are many souls in torment here, and there are many different types of torment for these souls. There is greater punishment for those who once preached the gospel and went back into sin, or for those who would not obey the call of God for their lives."

Inside the coffin was a man who kept saying "No hope, no hope!" On closer inspection, the soul of the man was in a gray mist form, which filled the coffin and inside the soul was a heart. The spears literally pierced his heart and blood was everywhere.

The man saw Jesus and said "Lord, Lord, let me out. Have mercy. I will serve You now, Lord. Lord, I will now preach the true gospel. I will tell about sin and hell. But please help me out."

Jesus informed Mary that the man was a minister of the Gospel and at one time, had served Jesus with all his heart. However, the lust of the flesh and the desire for money had deceived him. He stole from the church offerings as well as teach lies. For example, he taught that the Holy Ghost baptism was a lie and that unrepentant drunkards would go to heaven. This preacher even said that God was too good to send anyone to Hell. Jesus said "He caused many good people to fall from the grace of the Lord " He trampled My Holy Word under his feet. Yet, I continued to love him. My child, it is better to have never known Me than to know Me and turn back from serving Me."

Jesus explained that now Satan torments this man because he once preached God's Holy Word and saved souls for God's Kingdom " this is his torment. Jesus looked at the man and said that this man caused many to stumble and that many souls are here in hell because of him.

Jesus informed Mary that the time of the end is very near and that He will come back for His church at a time we think not. His words of encouragement were "I will protect you from evil. I will keep you in all your ways. I will save you. I will save your loved ones. Call upon Me today and live."

Chapter 7 (The Belly of Hell)

The next night, they entered hell again. They were at a wide open area and many demons and evil entities could be seen gathered in one area. In this area, one can see many souls in torment and the semi-darkness was often interrupted by sharp screams of pain and regret. Jesus said to Mary "Child, Satan is both the deceiver on Earth and the tormenter of souls in hell. Many of the demonic powers seen here also go up on the Earth at times to hurt, afflict and deceive."

In this area, there were cell blocks; these cells were arranged in a circle and seventeen miles high. Jesus told Mary that one day, death and hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Hell is a temporary holding place until that day comes.

Chapter 8 (The Cells in Hell)

Jesus informed Mary that many of the souls in these cell blocks were in witchcraft or the occult, such as sorcerers, mediums, drug dealers, idol worshipers and evil people with familiar spirits. Screams and moans can be heard coming from all over the cells. Jesus explained that in hell, there are different torments for different souls and Satan administers those torments.

Jesus and Mary walked to a cell which contained an old lady seated in a rocking chair. Mary was surprised to see a real woman with a body. The woman was crying.

Mary was then surprised as she saw the woman change forms, to an old man, then to a young woman, then middle-aged woman and then back to the old lady; even the clothes changed. When the old woman saw Jesus, she cried "Lord, have mercy on me. Let me out of this place of torment." She then changed her form again, to a man, then a woman, and back to the old lady.

Jesus explained that the woman practiced witchcraft and as well as taught others witchcraft. Satan also tricked her in believing that she would receive a kingdom of her own, as a reward for serving him. When she died, she praised Satan and came here. She then asked Satan for her kingdom, but he mocked her and said "Did you think I would divide my kingdom with you? This is your kingdom." And he locked her in this cell and tortures her.

Jesus told Mary that this woman was a witch and taught both white and black witches on the occult. One of her tricks was to change from a youthful woman, to a middle-aged woman, to an old woman and then to an old man. She did this to show off her power to lesser witches. Now, she cannot control her changes and keeps changing from one form to another, and with each change, her flesh is ripped away; her real form is a misty soul inside a skeleton. Jesus said "Satan uses her for his evil purposes and taunts and mocks her. Every so often she is brought back before Satan to be tormented for his pleasure."

Chapter 9 (The Horrors of Hell)

They walked to another cell and could see another woman in great pain. Her bones were burned and decaying flesh were falling off the bones. Worms could be seen crawling out of her flesh and bones.

The woman was holding a rag doll and, like the woman before, was sitting in a rocking chair. She was crying profusely.

Jesus explained that on Earth, this woman was a servant of Satan; in fact, she had gained great favor with Satan because of all the evil she had done. She was the equivalent of a preacher of Satan. In fact, she had sold her soul to Satan and thus had the strongest kind of satanic power. Many people who sell their souls to the Devil think they will live forever, but in reality, will die a horrible death and will end up in these cells. These servants of Satan work as palm readers, mediums".

After this woman died, she was brought before Satan. She angrily asked why she no longer had control of the demons (on Earth, she had control over them) and demanded that Satan keep his promise of giving part of his kingdom to her. Satan said to her "I deceived you and used you all those years. I will never give you my kingdom." The Devil also said to her "you did serve me well on Earth. You brought me more than 500 souls." He then lied and said "Your punishment will not be as bad as the others."

Jesus later said "The way to heaven is the same for all people. You must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. You must come to the Father in My name and repent of your sins. You must sincerely give your heart to God and serve Him."

Chapter 11 (Outer Darkness)

This night, Jesus and Mary walked past a group of demons who were praising Satan. Mary heard the demons say "We will go to this house today and torment those that are there. We will get more power from Lord Satan if we do this right. Oh, yes, we will cause a lot of pain and sickness there and much grief to them all." One demon said "We will have to watch very carefully for those who believe in Jesus, for they can cast us out." Another demon replied "But we are not going to those who know Jesus and the power of His name."

Jesus explained that His Holy Angels protect His people from these evil spirits. These angels also protect the unsaved, even though the latter don't know it. This is why the gospel must be preached to everyone, to protect the believer from evil.

Then Jesus showed Mary a place called "outer darkness". Mary could hear weeping and gnashing of teeth; there was total hopelessness in this place. There, a very large man about thirty feet tall, who appeared to be an angle, held a very large disk on his left hand. On the outer edge of the disk was blackness and on the center was fire; souls could be seen swimming in the sea of fire. Jesus said to Mary, "This is outer darkness. Remember that my Word says, "The children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'" Jesus explained that these were His servants who turned their backs on Him, and chose to not stand for truth or holiness.

He said that it is better to not start than to turn back from serving Him. However, if you repent, Jesus will forgive you of your sins, but if not, then He will come when you least expect Him and will cut you off with the unbelievers, to be cast into outer darkness. Then Jesus said to tell His servants to be faithful and to call on His name.

Chapter 13 (The Right Arm of Hell)

Jesus took Mary to a river; on closer inspection, the river was on fire and full of blood. As they walked closer, Mary could see souls chained together and the weight of the chain dragged the souls underneath the lake of fire. Cries of regret could be heard. Jesus explained that these souls are unbelievers and people who chased after their fleshly desires, doing what was unnatural. They were men loving men and women loving women, who would not repent of their sins.

... skipping directly to Chapter 16 (The Center of Hell)

Mary heard a voice saying "Help me. It's so painful." Mary could see a woman in a cell with a real pair of eyes looking at them. The woman said "Lord, I will do what is right now. I once knew You, and You were my Savior." As she said this, her flesh began to burn and all she was left with were bones. The woman continued:

"You even healed me of cancer. You told me to go and sin no more lest a worse thing come upon me. I tried, Lord; You know I tried. I even tried to witness for You. But, Lord, I soon learned that those who preach Your Word are not popular. I wanted people to like me. I slowly went back into the world and the lust of the flesh devoured me. Nightclubs and strong drink became more important than You. I lost touch with my Christian friends and soon found myself seven times worse than I had been before. And though I became lovers of both men and women, I never intended to be lost. I did not know that I was possessed by Satan" I kept thinking I still had time. Tomorrow I will turn back to Jesus" I waited too long, and now it is too late."

Jesus escorted Mary to another cell. There, they could see a woman picking worms out of her bones. The woman in the cell pleaded with Jesus to let her out and said "Lord, when I was on Earth, I worshiped the Hindu gods and many idols. I would not believe the gospel the missionaries preached to me, although I heard it many times. One day I died. I cried for my gods to save me from hell, but they could not."

Jesus said to this woman, "It's too late"

... skipping directly to Chapter 24 (God's Final Plea)

Jesus said: "Come as a little child, and let Me cleanse you from the works of the flesh. Say to Me, "Lord Jesus, come into my heart and forgive me of my sins. I know that I am a sinner, and I repent of my sins. Wash me in Your blood, and make me clean. I have sinned against heaven and before You and am not worthy to be called a son. I receive You by faith as my Savior.' I will give you pastors after My own heart, and I will be your Shepherd. You will be My people, and I will be your God. Read the Word, and forsake not the assembling of yourselves. Give your whole life to Me, and I will keep you. I will never leave or forsake you."

ANSWER:  There is one point I do agree with here and that is the fact that Jesus will never leave or forsake anyone - not even to the ends of the Earth or the depths of hell. Not even a sparrow falls to the ground without our loving heavenly Father. Nor without our loving Mother Earth herself.

A Comment by L. Jagi Lamplighter

I just read parts of your article on Mary Baxter's book about Hell, and I wanted to make a few comments on it.

One of the most disconcerting things for me in Angie Fenimore's book is where she is told:

I've been thinking about this a good deal. It's nearly impossible for me to believe it. I'm an "everyone goes to heaven' kind of person. But I decided that, for the sake of argument, I should consider that this might be true and see where that might lead. Here is what I have thought on the matter:

Reading Daniel Rosenblit's story was a revelation to me. He was told a good deal, and yet, the God he spoke to, at least at first, seemed far more judgmental than the experience of, say, Betty Eddie or Dannion Brinkley. Yet, once he accepted forgiveness, God appeared kinder.

My conclusion is that Jesus was very serious when he said:

I think the more judgmental we are in life, the more judgmental the afterlife seems to us.

We see the world "through a glass darkly'. That glass gets darker, the farther we move away from God " the more judgmental we are " and God, seen through the glass, seems darker to us. Those who, upon Earth, lead lives away from God may in fact end up in torments, such as the sights described in Return From Tomorrow " and yet, in his tour of Hell, George Ritchie saw beings of light standing over those in Hell, as did Angie Fenimore.

My conclusion is that there probably is a hell-state " a place where people whose minds are far from God end up. (Because the only torment is being far from God, these people believe they are in torment.)

But could such a place be eternal? Could a good God punish eternally?

I am certain the answer is no.

After all, I cannot believe Jesus or Buddha (whether or not they were the same guy ;-) would ever rest while yet one suffered. Hey, I'd like to think I wouldn't rest, and I am certain Jesus and God are infinitely better than me.

Sin, I think, will be punished eternally " it couldn't be otherwise " sin is being separate from God, and the only source of anguish is being separate from God.

But people? I can't believe individual sinners are punished eternally.

I am sure these guys in Hell are given second chances, third chances, fifth chances, five hundredth chances, millionths chances, etc.

After all, why would Edgar Cayce talk about an effort to stop people from reincarnating from Hell for 1000 years " to let the Earth improve and be ready to help these people when the 1000 years is up, I assume " if people did not reincarnate from Hell? And if they do reincarnate from Hell, well then they can't be there permanently, can they?

My theory is that the farther people move away from God, the more permanent they fear their punishment will be " however, moving away from God does not change the nature of God, it just leads you to misunderstand him more.

My husband describes it as like the way the sun seems red with anger (the sunrise) before it rises. To those farther away, God seems angry " but the sunlight is never actually red, and God is never actually "not loving." (I think he got this analogy from C. S. Lewis.)

Basically, people in Hell are punishing themselves, and " as is suggested in "Return From Tomorrow" and "Beyond the Darkness" " the moment they accept forgiveness, they will be released from Hell.

Now, this brings us to Satan. I've never believed in Satan, but recently I realized that there could be a Satan ... here's what led to that thought:

Have you read "Letters from the Light" by Elsa Barker (if not, you should! I bet you'd enjoy it!) In it, the dead guy who is talking to Elsa describes how people where he is form things out of their mind, much as Jan Price's dog taught her to do. If people can form houses, I don't see why they couldn't form demons, or juice cans or anything they pleased.

I think "demons" people encounter are one of two things:

(1)  The spirits of men who have lost the way, basically lost souls who are not really demons, but think they are " who will be rescued eventually.

(2)  Mental constructs, similar to Jan Price's dog's house, formed by the minds of men but which in truth have no independent reality.

If enough people believe in Satan, there could be a "Satan'. Angie Fenimore mentions him briefly. I think Betty Eddie does too.

But, I don't think he's a fallen angel (i.e., a creature made by God). I think he's a mental construct that exists because men believe in him, and who will cease to exist when they do not " similar to a myth, or a computer program that spouted devilish advice, but had no spirit behind it.

In the sequel to "Letters to the Light, War Letters From A Living Dead Man" available online at the link provided (I'd make sure I'd read the first book first.), the man speaking runs into demons that are apparently part of the mind of living men. He sees a dead soldier encounter a demon, who is part of him. Eventually, the man is able to approach the soldier and lead him away to a nicer place. He also meets the "black-veiled one' who seems to be Satan. It was when reading about this that it occurred to me a Satan could exist, but that he would be like a puppet, a thing that reflects back at you whatever would get you to pay attention to yourself rather than to God. Think of a broken record, or a recording, but one with cunning that can alter its message.

In conclusion, Mary Baxter may be making up her books, or she may have heard all this from Jesus " but if so, it was the "red' Jesus "seen through a glass darkly' that reflects the frighten beliefs of those who fear God, not the real Jesus, the Man of Love " and yet, it may be true Jesus wanted her to spread this message. If even one person is improved because they read her book and change their ways, that might be good enough for Jesus!

In conclusion, if by Hell you mean a place where souls are punished eternally " I think we have enough evidence from NDEs to say there is no such thing " but that does not mean that there are not places of temporary punishment, such as where Angie Fenimore found herself. In her experience, she was told people stayed there as short or as long a time as they needed for their soul to grow. I see no reason not to believe that is true.

L. Jagi Lamplighter  lampwright@erols.com

ANSWER:  Everything you said about the nature of hell and "Satan" is exactly the way I feel about this subject except you have put it into words which I never could have. You are very eloquent.

I have found that when it comes to discussing the most controversial aspects of NDEs (which I believe to be "hell," "God", and "Satan") it is so easy to tangled up with words that have so many different meanings to everybody that the words are practically useless when trying to describe it. For example, I have found that the word "hell" is almost always associated in people's minds with words like "eternal", "punishment", and "judgment". This, of course, comes from the fact that Christianity has been dominant in western civilization and these are the traditional words which most people think of it. But in near-death research, hell is more associated with "temporary", "purgatory", "education", and "purification." And instead of hell as being a location somewhere, near-death research associates hell more as a spiritual condition. More can be read about the NDE and Hell and the Void at the links provided.

Concerning Angie Fenimore's comment, "More people who are dying now are going into the darkness than not." There is an interpretation of this which would make this statement correct to me. It is true that a large number of people enter into a realm called "the void" immediately after death (see the link provided above). It is a place of utter darkness and people have described this realm as both "hellish" and "heavenly". The void is a neutral-like place where people can experience their inner selves with little or no outside influences or forces. The purpose of the void is for self-evaluation in order to make an important decision: In the void, the light may or may not appear (I believe this is dependant upon whether the person has "seen the light" while they were alive on Earth.). If the light appears, you have the choice to: (1) enter into the light and merge with it, or (2) not enter the light, and instead choose other options such as to be revived (resulting in a NDE), or selecting an afterlife realm out of a large number of afterlife realms for which to continue life. Those NDEs which do not involve the void usually show the experiencer going directly into the light; and this is not uncommon. So, technically, Angie Fenimore may be correct in that most people probably do go to the void first. But, if Angie Fenimore means that most people "go to hell forever for punishment" then she is expressing her own opinion based upon her own religious background and bias.

It is just as you pointed out, that the more these "hell-fire-damnation" perceptions are ingrained in a person's mind, they more they will perceive reality that way when they no longer have a body to restrict their minds and perceptions. People who focus primarily on "Satan" and "sin" are more apt to see Satan and sin everywhere. One thing I like about reading so many of these NDEs is that you soon discover that it is God who is everywhere and it is possible to see "goodness" everywhere despite appearances. This is one good reason why nobody should believe in a Satan (an omnipresent force of evil). By thinking about "Satan", you create his existence. I have more on this at my NDE and Satan page.

Like many concepts in the Bible, "Satan" is an archetype which represents different things to different people. And it is true that people who believe or entertain the idea of a Satan or demons all around us, must be careful because "thoughts are deeds" when it comes to the realm of the afterlife (mind and imagination) and as Jesus said that a lustful thought is equivalent to the act.

So, you hit the nail right on the head. Basically, no matter where we are in physical reality, spiritual reality, and even virtual reality, "reality" is in the eye of the beholder. It is now a matter of quantum physics: We create our own reality. I expound on this on my NDE Differences page. So, be careful what you wish for because you will probably get it in the realm of the mind and imagination called "the afterlife."